It's got to the point where I have no idea what anyone is saying anymore. I now go strictly off vibes. If someone gives a good vibe, they're in. If not, they're out. When I first stumbled across Danny's work, it gave me a good vibe.

A few months after going back and forth online, discussing life, writing, creating, experimenting, exploring, Danny told me he was starting a podcast. Of course, I accepted to be a guest when he asked.

Number 17 too. I'm a fan of that number.

Our conversation dances between:

  • The Australian concept of "too easy"
  • How I started writing online
  • The kind of writing I like to read (and like to write)
  • How I got into teaching myself machine learning and sharing what I was learning
  • Danny's experiments with meditation
  • The practice of not taking things (especially yourself) too seriously
  • Much more...

Transcript

Danny Miranda: [00:00:00] Well, let's just get to it. And, get started off.

Daniel Bourke: [00:00:04] Too easy.

Danny Miranda: [00:00:05] Yeah, what bro, what, first of all, what does "too easy" mean? You've said that like seven times and I'm like, "I've never heard this phrase."

Daniel Bourke: [00:00:13] You're probably going to hear a lot of Australian lingo throughout this. How do I explain this "too easy"?

It just means it's, it's like a version of all good kind of thing. Whatever. Yeah. Whatever we're doing, is easy. So it's like we don't have to worry.

Danny Miranda: [00:00:30] Dude. I feel like Australians are just so much more relaxed and so much calmer. You know, Americans are so uptight. It feels like sometimes...

Daniel Bourke: [00:00:41] Man, truth be told I've been to the US a couple of times.

And that's the exact vibe that I've got too. I was like, like, we're going to go to, wait actually, where are you from?

Danny Miranda: [00:00:52] I'm from New York, but I lived in San Diego for the past year. So I'm more on your wavelength than the New York one, but it's all good.

Daniel Bourke: [00:01:03] Yeah, man. Well, that's what I noticed when I went over to the US like we'd be getting ready for an event or something like that, and it'd be guys. "Yeah, we gotta go. We gotta go. We're gonna be late, man. We're gonna got to get the car ride in. "And me and my Australian friend, who is my godfather, we were over there and we were just talking, "Well, man, just take it easy. We'll we'll, we'll figure it out. Like, worst case, we missed this car ride, we'll get the next one. Or we can walk" and they're like "What are you talking about?" And they did not like the fact that we were chill.

It's crazy when you're a calm person, it like kind of pisses people off who aren't calm. But,

Danny Miranda: [00:01:49] Yes.

Daniel Bourke: [00:01:50] I get along with my little brother, my little brother is like straight-edge, like up and down has to be like, on the clock all the time, whatever.

And I'm kind of like head in the clouds. So, we balance each other pretty well.

Danny Miranda: [00:02:04] What's crazy, dude, your head’s in the clouds, but you're, you've produced so much amazing content over the past, you know, like three years, like how have you done that? How have you managed that calm attitude with also just like being consistent and quote, unquote grinding?

Like how have you managed that balance?

Daniel Bourke: [00:02:26] Yeah, you kind of brought actually, there is a lot of crap that I've put out there. Some of it's good, but look, when I say like "head in the clouds", it's a balance, right? So it's like a lot of the time, like chilling out, like we are now like just chilling out, having a conversation or whatever, but then when it comes to like doing what I need to do, like, I can't the last, if you could, if I spent the last three years getting good at anything, it's getting good at doing just one thing. So it's like, if I need to do something, it's like, that's, I'm doing for the next four hours until it's done.

So whether that goes for writing or making a video or coding something up or making materials, it's just zoned in. Four good hours a day. That seems to be my going right. And, that, that seems to be enough sometimes. So whatever happens in there, but that's what usually gets published.

Danny Miranda: [00:03:19] Yeah. I mean, it's crazy because I found your stuff.

I don't even know how, whether it be like through a mention that you mentioned me or I sent you a message. And then I was like, "Oh my God, this dude stuff is amazing!"

But like, dude, your writing is incredible to me. And I mean that. And it's like the, what I love about it so much is just the honesty and authenticity of it.

It feels like, it feels like you're my boy, you know, it feels like we're friends and you're writing and just giving me access to your diary and just like telling me interesting things and cool things. So like, how did you get to that point of conversational style?

Daniel Bourke: [00:04:04] Yeah. Well, I like what you just said that's kind of what I want it to be is, like, so I never used to, like, I got turned off reading in school, just cause it, like, you had to, basically the teacher would say, "You need to read this, you need to read that."

And then I got turned off writing in University, because it was like, "You need to write this essay. It needs to be a thousand words and you need to have a reference for basically anything you say." And I'm just like, "Wow, this is boring." But then, I started on a couple of years ago. I just started like writing frantically.

It was after breaking up with my girlfriend and I was heartbroken, just trying to figure out what the hell this feeling was, because outside, like my, my energies. If any, if you ever ask me or ask someone else, sorry, who knows me? It's just like this ball of energy, just moving through space.

But then I was like, "Oh, I'm kind of having to put this on at the moment because inside I'm feeling like shit." And then I just started journaling like every day, basically typing into a website called "750words". And  I'm like, You know what? This is pretty fun." The first month or so of doing it, it was like, "Who am I to be having these thoughts and putting them on paper."

And then I sort of got into, "Do you know what? This is fun." And then, so I fell back in love with writing. I fell back in love with reading, cause I was reading just ways to feel better basically. And all it was was just heartbreak, simple thing. And I was like, "You know what? This is."

I was getting back like the, when I was a kid, I remember being 12 and like reading like 10 books in a day or something like that, and just feeling awesome.

I was getting back that feeling of, "Wow, this is, this is cool. It's fun." When you don't have to, when you don't have a criteria to read or write, you're just sort of following your interest. And then I just decided, "You know what? I've done enough of this reading and, and whatnot of other people's posts and whatever."

So I'm going to start putting my own out there. And then I, the single criteria and I still have it to this day is like, would I like to read this or would I like to watch this? And then that's, that's all it is. So if I'm reading back on my own work and I'm like, "Oh, does this sound like a lawyer would write this?"

I'll then delete it and make it sound better. Well, at least to me.

Danny Miranda: [00:06:19] Yeah. That's what I loved about you. You had something in one of your posts where it was like, "If GPT-3 could write this, that I don't want to publish it. "And we'll get more to GPT-3 later, because you have some experience with data science and all that great stuff, and a lot of experience at that, but just like you, just, your mindset was like, "All right, I want it to be weird. I want it to be so out there. I want it to be interesting so much so that, data processing system and writing machine couldn't write it." I thought that was very interesting,

Daniel Bourke: [00:06:58] Man. That's well, that's exactly it like, so if I want it to be like we were having a conversation like right now, and I know there's a style. That's just the writing I like to read. Like if someone like. So it's kind of a conversation like we're having now, is kind of almost all over the place. It's like a stream of consciousness and I understand there's a time and a place for like having structured writing and whatnot.

But I just find it, first of all, fun to read because it kind of flows naturally. It's like a dance, and then it's fun to write because you're not kind of, you're just letting your thoughts flow as they are, and then typing them into a keyboard as you go. So that's, that's all that I'm trying to do.

And it's kind of, I like to, I like to try and keep it as close to the exact truth as possible. And I mean, you have some crazy thoughts in it. If it went down on paper, most of us would probably end up locked up, but it's like, people are, people are having like, people are people, man. We have these thoughts like we want to, we want to know, like, we don't just want to read like this.

The suit talk and all that sort of stuff. Like why, why do people skip terms and conditions? Cause it's just like, okay, like, I'll look at a paragraph in terms and conditions and be like, "What the hell?" Like how I'm going to, this is like Chinese to me, even though I know that it's in English. And so in frankly, I like, I get kind of obsessed with it.

Like I'll, I'll read it and like, someone will send me something and I'll read theirs. And I kind of like, obviously want to put my own input in, but it's especially like if someone is sending me a draft or something like that, I don't want to be too aggressive with it, but it's no, that's, that's, it's one of my favourite activities writing and just, being, I don't find anything more beautiful than a well-crafted sentence.

Hmm, maybe a sunset or sunrise, but a well-crafted sentences, is good to look at.

Danny Miranda: [00:08:58] Okay. So, so when did you get started with just writing in general?

Daniel Bourke: [00:09:04] It's a very succinct date. I think it was May 21 2016.

Well, maybe

Danny Miranda: [00:09:13] Four years ago, exactly.

Daniel Bourke: [00:09:15] Yeah, exactly. Or maybe, I'm just getting confused with the recency bias that two days ago was the 21.

Anyway, it was, I think it was 21 of something, but it was mid-2016, or mid to late 2016. And that, yeah, I just decided, you know, that I spent, I took too much time, like consuming, just information on the internet. It's like, it's time to shift that balance, you know? Yeah, I've, I've read him out.

Stop online. I browsed enough Facebook, Instagram and just sat up in bed, like scrolling through an infinite scroll. I'm just like, I just got tired of my own bullshit. Just like thinking that, you know, what if I could make these things and then not doing it. And so like, then I've got like a post on a blog.

Like today I started my blog and then it kind of just, it just went on from there. And it's, it's hard to think, man. Cause it feels like, it feels like longer than four years, but when you put it into perspective, it's like, wow, I was at university for longer than that. so yeah, it was about 2016 where I completely just went, "You know what? I'm going to reshift my balance from being a consumer to being a creator and whatever that takes, I'm not sure, I'll just figure it out."

It was a simple question. Am I spending as much time making things as I am consuming things? And when I asked myself that question four years ago, it was"no".

And now I would say I've got the balance probably in the right order for me as in. I probably create more than I consume these days. And I, I like it that way at the moment who knows it might change, but I think for the time being it'll, it'll keep going.

Danny Miranda: [00:10:55] I love it, bro because it's like your story and your honesty about your story resonates so much with me.

And it's amazing how you make that decision and you, you know, like you're in that place of consuming. And when I was in that place of consuming every day, it's like, It doesn't feel the same as when you're creating every day. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's a difference in your soul, at least for me personally, that just like, it exudes to everything I do now.

Like, "Oh, I'm a creator. I create things." We're creating with this conversation, right? And it's a false belief to think that you, whoever's listening to this, is not a creator because as a person, you are inherently a creative being and you are inherently a creator. So yeah, man, I'm just really inspired by just the way your journey so far.

Daniel Bourke: [00:11:51] Yeah. Well, it's. It's all. Thank you. I appreciate that. But it's, yeah, it's once you, I mean, once you flip the switch, everything, you look at the world, it's kind of like a different filter on the world. Like I remember like thinking, like back a couple of years ago, like, "Wow, I can't wait to get some time off to, to browse my phone, to keep going through social media." And I can take a break at work or whatever, and be like, "Yes, finally! I get that domain head of scrolling through my Facebook feed, seeing posts of people I never talk to."

But now it's like, "Oh, okay." Now I look at the world and go, "Wow, that's a." I'll walk past someone and then they'll like, draw up an off remark or something like that. They'll be talking to someone else and it'll be a cool saying or something like that. And, I'll be like, "You know what? I'm going to pocket that, and I'm going to use that in one of my articles." Sometimes you look at the world differently.

Danny Miranda: [00:12:46] Absolutely. And so you started your writing journey in 2016. And then you, you said to yourself, I believe three years ago, you said to yourself in 2017, "Okay. Now I'm going to be a data scientist, that I've never been a data scientist before." Right.

So, tell me like, why data science in particular, and like what you were thinking when you were creating your journey and documenting your journey.

Daniel Bourke: [00:13:19] The story was I was working well, so I've always been a nerd. Like I grew up, like tech nerd, always into video games, always into the latest and greatest technology. Still am. And I was working at Apple, like at the retail store, like, as, as a genius at Apple. So, one of those guys who, who fixes your computer, like when you come in and whatever, but I must have prefered talking to people as they came in. So this is probably counterargument to my own journey right now, but, I just prefered talking to different customers then, like going down into the dungeon. We had this little like basement repair room with all the hardware that was there and we came, it came to a point like, one day as well, I was like getting excited. There was, we were launching some new product or something like that. And I'm like, "You know what? I'm sick of like shocking this stuff and not knowing like how it works internally. I want to start making it, as in like, rather than like repairing it hands-on, I want to start writing the code that these things are running and build applications and whatnot.”

And before that, like I tried to learn to code like a couple of times, but just failed because when it got hard, I just gave up. And then, so I left Apple and me and a few friends, we were like, had the idea. We wanted to build a website, basically the Airbnb of gyms, because we had this problem.

Every time we tried to work out, because we lived on different sides of town, together, as he'd be at one gym, I'd be at another gym. And then we try to go in and we'd be like, "Oh, you need to sign all this paperwork and yada, yada yada, and give us your phone number." I'm like, "This is a pain in the ass every single time we have to come in here." And so our idea was, wouldn't it be great if we just had a little simple website you could go to and you're like, "Oh, there's gym X. I'd like to take a one-time pass to that place." Pay your $10 or $15 or whatever it was. And then boom, you can just walk in, you have a QR code or something like that on your phone.

And so we thought this was an incredible idea and we started building a website and whatever. When we went around, and also, while we're building the website, we were learning to code along the way. And then we went to the gyms, we realized, "Oh, you know what, we've got this great, great little application. Would you like to use it?" And they said, no. And we're like, "What?" And they're like. We got to talk with a few of the managers at different gyms and they're like, "Hey guys, I know you're trying to get more people in the door and your service seems great, but" he, he was really honest with us, is like, "Our business depends on people not showing up.

And we were like, "Oh!".Like, say like the average team, like one that we talked to had, like something like 3000 paying members, but only 200 would show up at least once a week. So yeah, exactly. So our whole thing of trying to get more people in the door just completely didn't work against how their business model works.

So there's something to be said about gyms that, anyway. So that idea kind of failed once we realized, "You know what, this is not going to work unless we have, gyms" Like, we're gonna have plenty of customers, like from the consumer side, but it won't work unless we, we can give them access to the gyms.

So that kind of fizzled out because he, he had to do his own thing and I was sort of. I didn't have a job. I was living off savings, so I kind of had all the time in the world. And while I was researching different technologies to build this website, all I could hear about was like machine learning and artificial intelligence.

And I'm like, "Wow, this sounds pretty cool." So I researched a bit more and, and data science and whatnot. And then I was like, I kind of got into it and I was like, "Whoa. So you're telling me that you feed a computer a lot of data and it figures out the patterns in itself, on its own. And you don't have to write all this code that I'm writing to build this website."

And I kept looking into it more, and it turns out that's kind of the basic premise of what data science and machine learning are. I'm like, "Whoa. That's, that's pretty cool because me designing this website is pretty tedious. So I'd rather just let the computer do all the things for me."

And so I just went online and found another online course, and there was this charismatic individual who was selling it to me. And I signed up and, got a little scared because two weeks out, I, when I signed up, I didn't read the prerequisites and it's like, "Oh, you need X amount of like six months experience in this coding language." I've never used that coding language. And so I'm like, "Oh crap!". This was a $1,300 online course for the next six months.

And I don't have any experience doing it, any of the things that they're going to be teaching. So I, and I only had like $6,000 or something insane for the next, until I got a job. So that was a large amount of money for me. It's still kind of is, I mean, $1,300 for any kind of learning resource anyway, kind of. Short story long, I emailed the support team and said, "Hey, what's your refund policy?" They're like, "Well, you can refund up to two weeks before the course." And I decided, "You know what? I've got, I've got nothing else on. I'm going to just learn everything I need to as I go." And because I'd already been to university, I kind of, the best thing I took away from university was learning how to learn.

So I kind of, like, back to my own ability to be able to figure things out. And so I said, well, worst case, I figured things out along the way. I just sent some emails saying, "Hey, this is one of my assignments, like, et cetera" and I'll figure it out along the way. And so I did that and it got pretty lonely because I was studying basically in my bedroom the whole time.

So I'm like, "You know what? I'm going to start writing about this stuff online and see if there are any other nerds out there like me, studying in their bedrooms". Ended up, it turned out that, that it was, because I mean, last few years online learning is just growing, especially in the last, probably six to nine months.

And, I just kept going from there and I figured, you know what? This is going to be a form of both accountability and a way to just meet other people, and a way to share and practice the things that I've learned. So if I can create materials about the things that I'm learning, well, that's going to help me figure out all this new stuff.

And so that one turned into a few more, turned into getting a job turned into leaving that job, turned into creating my own course to teach the people that were asking or to answer the question that I got asked the most often. And I still do. I want to learn machine learning, where do I start?

And so basically that, that kind of, if you put that timeline together, that ends up into three years and yeah.

Danny Miranda: [00:20:17] Dude, it's an incredible story. And it just brings me so much joy because I just it's like, you put yourself into something, you do it enough, you do it long enough. You help people, you act with pure intent and like great things happen.

At the beginning of that story, you said something that stuck out to me, which was. You had tried to code before, but you quit because it got too hard, but obviously by this point, the time that you ended up sticking it through you didn't quit. So what was the difference between when you tried to quit and when you did it?

Daniel Bourke: [00:21:03] Oh, so this is, yeah, this is probably the third or fourth time that I sat down and went, you know what I'm going to put in the time now. I think that the main difference and say, this is probably my memory failing me, probably generating a nice narrative around it. I think that the real main difference was I kind of had no other option this time.

I didn't have a job. I was living off savings, living with my parents. And so it was, well, what else are you going to do? Daniel? You could just sit around and watch discovery channel all day or play, play video games, or you can learn this skill that you've said to yourself the past few years that you wanted to learn.

Whereas the previous times are kind of, I remember there was one time, me and my friend, Dave, and we were. Like I was at university, he was working a full-time job. And so he would come over after work and we'd sit down at nights and we'd do it. And that lasted probably maybe a month at max or whatever.

And we were trying to, trying to learn to code together. Cause, cause it, was just. Something that we're both interested in and then it kind of fizzled out. And then there was another time where I'd go through online tutorials and whatnot. And that was, that lasted about a month. But then other things came up as I had, I think it was maybe university assignments or something like that.

And yada, yada yada. And there was, there's always just something in the way, but this time it was serious. Like I had, like, I had nothing else to do. And it's kind of. It's a kind of red thread that, that I've noticed in what I've been doing the last couple of years, is that rarely do I function well when I've got like six things on at one time.

So it's like, I'm working on a fairly large project at the moment and I'm kind of excited that I've like written everything else off, except talking to awesome people like yourself, except for this project. And so it's like, that's, that's all that I'm like thinking, breathing, eating is just, just what, what I'm working on at the moment.

And so, yeah, I think there's no real secret to it. Like that was just, I was unemployed. I had to have this skill that I'd been wanting to learn, telling me, telling myself this story for probably almost five to six years, or longer maybe. And I asked myself, are you going to, are you going to do it?

Or is it going to be like that thing that you just talked about, for X amount of years and just never acted on it? And so, yeah. Hey, kinda, that was kind of it. And then also I'd like, at this point, like when I was like a few months into it, I'd like published, an article saying, this is what I'm doing.

This myself created AI master's degree. and then it was all in public. And that kind of, even though there was probably like, maybe. I usually treat most things as like having zero viewers, but I kind of considered like, well, this is in public now. And so I need to, I'm going to be looked like a spectacular failure, but don't live up to this.

There's, there's a certain level of skin in the game that you're taking when you're publishing under your own name. And you're saying, this is what I'm doing. This is what I'm going to do. Like I said to everyone now, like I'm publishing podcasts Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and I'm posting twice on my blog on Monday and Thursday.

And if I don't do that, like there's a certain level of public accountability there. So it's, it's very important to like, like, even if no one is listening, you're putting that out there. You're making a statement under your name and that's valuable. And so for anyone listening, trying to do something, make a statement under your own name, it's different than acting anonymously or under a different name.

Like when your name is attached to it, like at least the way I look at it when your name is attached to it, you want everything you put out to be the highest quality. So.

Oh, yes. I respect. I have the utmost respect for people who stand by their creations, their own name. That's it. That's the, what is it the word for it, honour?

Or can you say for lack of a better word? Honor respect. Cause yeah, it's easy. It's easy. It's easy to be anonymous online. And I do, I do understand there's like places for that, like having a stage name or something like that. but yeah, being able to put your name on your own creations and a date, having a date these things will come out, date certainty.

I applaud you for that the Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and the Tuesday, Thursday having a date certainty, I'm kind of, I don't really have dates. Certainties are I promise people that more things will be out there, but, who knows when?

Danny Miranda: [00:25:55] Yeah. But at the same time, you did publish every day for 500 plus days on your website.

Right? So, so that is date certainty. That's like the extreme level of what I'm talking about. And that's what you see someone who does that. And you're like, Oh, like, Like I see someone who does, and I'm like, Oh my God, like I see eye to eye with them. Like, I know they're early, like on the same page as me, because you're building a skill, you're doing it in public. You're doing it every day. And if you want to get better at something, you just do it every day, man. Like, it's that easy and yeah, man, huge respect and huge ups for that. Talk to me about that journey. Like 500 plus days of writing every single day on your website. What is that like?

Yeah, well, that was, I figured I was going to be writing.

I usually write every day. My two favourite activities in life are fighting and writing. Writing code or writing words, whichever it may be. So I have a little tradition. Every birthday I'll write a listicle that's flavoured in the year that I turn.

Turning 25, I'll write 25 points about whatever. And so the 25 article was, "25 things I'm going to do before I'm 26." And so one of them, maybe it was number 21 or something like that. I can't remember. Oh, I'm thinking of the number 21 a lot. Ooh, maybe that's a trend or something. Anyway, I don't know what number it was, but there was one of them that was, write a blog post every day for a year.

And that was going to be number one. So that started September 1st, 2018. And then I just, all, all it was was, it was just a single blog post every single day, no questions asked on whatever, whatever I was thinking basically then it turned into, I got to the year mark. And so there were times where I think I almost missed like one day. It was like 11:54 or something and I was going to bed. I think I had like, just a lot on that day or something and just, I mean, no excuses, but, and then I like got into bed and I like, I like sat up and I sat up like scared. I was like, Oh my gosh. Unlike misses, but I didn't write an article today.

And so like, I was tired as hell pulled out my laptop and then just started punching away and posted it like 12:04 or something like that. huh. Yeah, exactly. I seriously remember sitting up, like it's, it's funny those moments, like, you know, when you wake up late or something and you realize that, Oh, I've got something and it's like, Waking up, isn't even a thing.

Like that's how I want to like wake up every morning is just get out of bed and there's just this something on like immediately. But yeah, and so what it was was like most of the time it would be, cause, I write in a journal almost every day would be like a post would evolve around that. Like the jibberish that I would put into the journal, or if I was reading a book or something like that, and my thoughts were, were hovering around that book.

I would try and figure out how to turn that book into my own words and then publish that. And then I started including stories of, of me interacting with people. And, and then it got to the year mark and I was like, you know what? I'm going to keep going. And so I did keep going and it ended up being 528 days until I hit that. And some days I'd be like, you know what, I don't feel like publishing. And I was just like, no, I've said this, I'm going to publish an article. And I ignored that voice. I don't know. I don't know where that voice comes from, it's just like, Daniel, why are you trying to self-sabotage yourself? So it'd end up with me having this argument in my head.

And then there'd be times like people would ask me questions and I'd turn that into a blog post of some sort. So there's, there's, I mean, there are limitless amounts of things that you can create, but then it got to 528 days and I'm like, you know what?

I've got a, I've got a larger writing project that I'm working on. I want to finish some writing, like the novel I’m working on at the moment. I'm like, I want to finish this. And I wanted, I want to not be, have myself spread across too many different things. So I took the approach, you know, I'm going to cut this off at 528, we've had a good run.

It's been an amazing amount of fun. And I'm going to finish off this other writing project that I've kind of been half arsing because I've had to publish a blog post every day. And, and so now all of my writing energy goes towards that.

Danny Miranda: [00:30:37] I love it. I love it because it's thoughtful, right? Like you're saying yourself. Okay. Like this project served me writing every day and now I'm going to take that energy and the things that I've learned from doing that and bring it to a new avenue, a new project, then that's awesome. And so your novel was something that I wanted to talk to you about.

Because it's just like, you've, you've now written most of your work, I would say, on, on your blog is non-fiction and what is the transition like to now go into fiction? Is that something you've done before? Tell us about that.

Daniel Bourke: [00:31:16] Yeah. So even though my posts are, a lot of them are non-fiction themed.

There's, there's a fair few that are like, just story themed as well. Like one of my articles that kind of went, I don't know, lack of a better word viral on Medium was, like a listicle type article, but it was written in narrative form. So like, it was like how I, study during the day, but it was like kind of a journey, like five tips to better learn something. But it was like from waking up in the morning to going to bed at night. And so I kind of, that's the kind of, we spoke about this before, but yeah, that’s the kind of writing that I like to read, narrative, but with like full philosophy built-in.

So there's some, there's some saying out there about novels being, novels being, oh, I can't remember, but I can't remember the exact phrasing, but it's something along the lines of novels, just being a story around someone's personal philosophies or something like that. I think it was Camus or something like that.

He said that anyway. But yeah, that's the kind of, when I read books, I like to read not too much science fiction, but as in like just the story of like a regular person. But they've, they've just written about their lives. So if you imagine it, if you've ever heard of Charles Bukowski Hunter S. Thompson, John Fante, Amy Hempel, like they're all, they're all of my favourites.

My bookshelf isn't in my room at the moment, but I'm just trying to mentally walk true along it, Henry Miller. So James Frey. Yeah. So they're all my favourite authors and kind of the common theme of them is just writing about day-to-day life. And so that's what my novel is, is it's a kind of coming of age story mixed in with a little bit of nerdy stuff.

Cause I mean, I am a, I'm a machine learning engineer, so, so it's got some of that in there. And then it's just got, it's got a, it's got a few things that are kind of pure fiction, but then most of it is just, just based off pure experience. Like I'd be sitting in a meeting in, in a tech job, and this is what, this is what it's like in narrative form.

I'm giving away too many spoilers. But, but it's, it's, I would say it's the same kind of experience it's in terms of writing, like, I found it wrote itself. Like, as in, when I say that it's, there was not a single time when I faced like writer's block or whatever, it was just a stream of consciousness out.

I wrote it. I, the first draft was, completely longhand. So, I've got about six or seven notepads somewhere in this room and that are just filled with, with handwriting. I just sit down at a cafe in the morning and write for an hour. Usually, that'd be enough to, to get a whole chapter out. And then, yeah, after, after a while it kinda got to a point I'm like, yeah, this is probably a good place to finish.

And so then I spent like a month or two during COVID typing it up. And now it's just in the process of getting it edited. I've got an amazing editor. I believe she's from Connecticut. I edited myself for like three or four drafts and then I'm like, "You know what? I wanna just see what it's like with someone else's eyes on it."

And so I posted a gig for someone to edit my work and received like 130 or so applications. And that was, that was a bit of a nightmare to go through because I'm hopeless with email, but, I replied to every single one and found down a few that stood out and so I'd send them samples and whatnot.

And then, cause I've written it in a very distinct style. Something again, something that I would like to read. And so it's not like your typical sort of novel that you would pick up and read. And that was like, one of my criteria is like, well, I could publish this myself almost right now, because I'm very happy with it, but I want to make it really tight.

So I want to see what this, what these editors think and a few read it and were like, what? Basically like, "Oh, you can't publish this style." I'm like, "Well, too bad. I'm publishing it like this." And then, and then one. Yeah. They're like, this is not traditional. I'm like, well, good. That's what I want. That's like, I specifically designed it to be like that.

And then, and then one, one, like reply won't, but he was like, wow, I love this. Like, one could argue that, “Oh yeah, you should take into account like the criticism.” And I was like, “Nah, you know what? I like this. I would read this.” And so. She replied. She was like, “Wow, I love this style, we can definitely keep it this way.”

I'll just help you make sure there aren't any holes or whatnot. First time novelists often do these mistakes and turns out she was completely right. I had, a bunch of things that I'd miss and whatnot, but anyway, that should come out sometime towards the end of the year.

It's been good. Good fun. I can't wait to do the next one.

Danny Miranda: [00:36:23] Dude. I cannot wait to read this book and I'm so excited because you know what it is. It's your, your non-fiction stuff. Like you're writing a story often. It's like you with a girl, you meeting someone. I'm like, it's almost as if it's, it could be fiction.

And so if it's anything like that, and even if it's not anything like that, I'm really excited just to check it out. And you brought up the, how you found that editor. And this was something that, that stood out to me and was one of your lessons on your, your 27 lessons post? That stood out and talk to you about just the importance of the followup.

Daniel Bourke: [00:37:07] Oh yes. So, so that, that, the story from that came from, as I said, I, I put, I put a job posting up, so actually, because I've never hired an editor before I actually emailed Derek Sivers and I was like, "Hey, Derek, do you have any experience hiring editors?" Which he kind of, I knew he kind of did, from reading his work.

“Where should I, where should I look for an editor?”

And Derek being Derek got back to me in like two days and said, "Oh, Hi Daniel, so cool to hear, you should go to the-efa.org. It's amazing. I've used it to hire 60 plus editors for my different projects."

I'm like, "Okay, sweet."

Well, it's good enough for Derek, it's good enough for me. And then I went to the-efa.org. So a big shout out to Derek Sivers. Thank you, Derek. I went to the-efa.org and so that's Editorial Freelancers Association. So it's basically like a marketplace. If I’m a writer and I need something edited, I can post this, this job posting and then editors from all over the world can say, "Hey, I'd like to edit your work."

And so that's what I did. I kind of posted it and I described it what it was. I'm like, Oh, we've got the book it's called "Charlie Walks." It's in this sort of style. It's written, Charlie's this person at a tech company and he wants to be a writer and. Here's how the story kind of flows. And then there's a little part where it was like, "How much do you want to pay?"

And they had their like default rates. It was like, whatever. And I kind of went to the higher end of the default. Right? Cause I'm like, well, this is a project of love. Plus I want to pay someone if they're going to do a good job. And then it was like, “What qualifications does someone need for this?”

And I was like, well, I don't really care. Have you edited a novel before? Tell me, tell me what you did for that. And so, because I posted that at about 10:00 PM and then went to bed and I woke up the next morning. The first email that I read, was someone warning me that I was about to get a barrage of emails.

And they said because you listed that you don't need any credentials. And I'm like, Oh, well, okay. And then that person was 100%, right. I just got more emails than I'd probably ever received in, in the space of 24 hours. And so I had all these people going, like, they were really excited going, Hey, I'd love to get your book.

I read the, I read the bio. It sounds amazing. Here's my experience. And they'd put all this, they put this incredible amount of effort into pitching their services to, to help me out. And so I'm like, like I was getting a bit of anxiety going emails, cause I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like, I don't want to, what if I missed someone here and whatever, who's going to be the right one.

So anyway, I was just like, this is simple. I'll just break it down. I'll reply to 10 to 20 people a day just going, Hey, thank you. Or no, thank you or whatever. So I started taking notes on, on everyone who'd offered, their services and the ones that stood out and then.

I kind of got like a shortlist of about 10 and then I asked them if they'd edit the sample and six of them said they would love to edit the sample. And so I had six and then kind of the one that I dunno, this, her name is Francis, Francis, one that stood out to me from the very start and like, just from her initial email.

And I ended up picking her despite the others, the other six shortlists that were incredibly amazing. And so I decided, you know what, I'm gonna, even though I've, I've shortlisted six, I'm going to reply to every single one and say “Thank you for offering your services. I really appreciate it. But I've decided to move forward with someone else.”

Because even though it's saying, no, I think that's, to me, that's better than just leaving them hanging kind of thing. I mean, if you've ever applied for a job in the past or applied for anything in the past, and not heard anything back. Well, it's kind of, I know you kind of feel pretty shit.

So I think it, well, I don't want, if these people are offering to help me, I don't want them feeling pretty shit that I didn't reply. And so even though I'm saying no, and the amazing thing was, was the replies I would get from the people who I said no to.

I posted one example in the blog post of the importance of the up. And that was someone saying you've made my day, even though I was saying no, or this is the first time an author has replied to me and you've made my day, even though I was saying no, thank you for your services or thank you for your offer I'm moving forward with someone else. And I'm like, yeah, wow.

And that was, that was just like one of like a dozen replies that I got, like thanking me, like just being elated at the fact that I replied. And so the followup has to aspect it's like that, that, that one to just give someone an answer. So they know because people like we're human beings, we hate uncertainty.

Like, look at that. Look at the time. Right now, the biggest thing that is everyone's problem is that we're kind of uncertain how the world is operating. But anyway, the second part to it is that, on my behalf, because I was so slow getting back to these 130 or so applicants, the ones who followed up with me, like two to three days later saying, "Hey, Daniel, did you get my application?"

And due to recency bias. I got back to them quicker. And so this goes for, like it's a note to myself is that. If, if in the first case you don't get a reply, don't be afraid to just go, Hey, you know what? I'm gonna ask again, worst-case scenario. So someone says no. So the second part, yeah, follow up.

You might, you might get a response, even though the first time you didn't get one. And then the first part is. Just letting someone know, Hey, thank you for your offer. they'll probably appreciate it. So that's what I learned from that.

Danny Miranda: [00:43:14] I love how you broke that down and it's so true. It's so easy to make someone's day by just replying to them.

And when you're the one applying, it's so easy for your email or your message to get lost in the junk and it doesn't hurt to send a second message. So kind of switching gears a little bit. Dude, you're a data scientist. So I couldn't not talk to you about what's going on in Neuralink and you had a whole thread on this and you've probably spent a lot more time than me thinking about this stuff.

So break it down to me. Like I'm a, I dunno like a ten-year-old like is Neuralink, could it actually do what could it, is it actually possible what Elon Musk is proposing? Like put a chip in your brain that makes the world, makes you like a million times smarter, like break this down for me.

Daniel Bourke: [00:44:13] Well, I need to preface this then I'm, I'm still figuring this out, myself and I'm by no means like a, what's it called a neuroscientist expert or, or computer hardware engineer.

So there's a lot of, a lot of different pieces to the puzzle with Neuralink. So you've got like the the hardware engineering. So that's like the materials like the device itself, that's one problem. Then you've got the software engineering, which is, how the device would communicate, or interpret signals in the brain.

And then what do you actually do once? So even if you can interpret those signals, like what do you actually do with them? And then you've got, yeah, the neuroscience part, which is okay. So we, we can develop this piece of hardware that can read electrical signals, which is basically what the brain is spewing out.

Well, at least as far as we know so far, what does that mean? So if, if we put it in this certain region of the brain and we insert a thousand electrodes, and they go into different regions, do we know what this electrode 187 is doing? Is that different to what electrode 720 is doing? so there's a lot of, like, I think Elon in the, in the recent updates, said that they've got like a thousand people maybe, or a hundred, I don't know it was a number, it was one zero, zero something as in a hundred or a thousand people.

But he said like, by the time it's to where they're sort of talking about the things that you kind of see in the media, like the hyped-up stuff of like making, you a thousand times smarter, making you be able to replay all your memories as if they're a movie, like you're needing an enterprise then of like 50,000+ people.

So he said, "Yeah, it's a couple of orders of magnitude increase in the number of staff that I have, but the goal here is how I understand it." This is very primitive. This is only me watching and reading about it is you have this device inserted, it replaces a piece of your skull, at the moment there's a thousand or so electrodes, those electrodes insert into your brain.

And they're able to pick up the electrical signals that your brain uses to communicate, to itself. So if I have a thought and that gets read by a traditional brain scan, it might look like, electricity jumping through a bunch of wires. and so how I understand it is those electrodes in the set, that signal that passes between different neurons.

And then, so it reads that signal and then you take that signal and there's. A bunch of very smart software engineers who are going to collect those signals over time so that they have a database and go “Okay, for the last 24 hours, I noted in this region of the brain, you were thinking like this, or here are the signals that we've measured. Let's see if we can find patterns in those signals.”

And so one of the demonstrations that they had, was they'd implanted the actual Neuralink device into a pig, into its motor cortex, which is what controls your movement. and so they had this pig walking on a treadmill. And they had one graph, which would show, which had four lines on it.

And for each line was one limb of the pig. So you could have a blue line for the left leg of green line for the red leg up, sorry, a green line for the front right leg, a red, yellow leg, et cetera. And so these lines were moving along this graph up and down. And so there was one dot on each of the lines or circle dot, which was the actual movement of the leg.

So it was tracking up and down as the pig walked along the treadmill. And then you had a triangle which was followed up like, so four triangles, one for each of the legs, which was the prediction of where the neural link software thought that the leg position would be. So it's kind of hard to describe this without like a, a graph, but, so there's a pig walking along the treadmill and the Neuralink device is trying to predict where each of its legs is going to be.

But because of course, they can see the pig, they know where the legs are going to be. So what the demonstration was, was comparing them, Neuralink’s predictions of where the legs were based purely off the electrical signals that it was reading from the pig’s brain vs. the actual leg position, that the pig had like buy stuff at camera fade or something like that.

And what was incredible was how close it was to predicting where like the pigs limbs would be. So if you imagine the circles are the actual position and the triangles are the predicted position. The triangles were like half cut off by the circle. Because they would fit into each other.

And so this is just on a graph of displaying as the pig’s walking. And so that's, of course, that's like, that's like level one compared to being a thousand times smarter and connecting to the internet and whatnot. But this is, this is just kind of like a proof of concept where, well, at least in my eyes where it's like, well, "Hey, we've got this."

This device, physically working. And of course, scaling up is going to be an incredibly hard challenge. But what excites me a lot about is so my, my dad has Parkinson's and dementia and Alzheimer's. And so, a lot of these like cognitive diseases are basically from misfiring signals in the brain. So, if you imagine if they're at Neuralink level one right now where they can predict the limb positioning of, of a pig, based off the electrical signals in its motor cortex, there's a lot of other things that you can sort of, pick up in the motor cortex and potentially, so that was sorry.

There's two big points here, that was Neuralink reading the electrical signals. What's going to be more exciting is when it, when it's able to write electrical signals. So, you could imagine if it's picking up those signals and starting to get an idea of what's happening. Again, this is where my knowledge of how neuroscience and Neuralink in general works is lacking, but the idea is, imagine if you could...

So, okay. You know how the signals work when you're reading them, imagine if you could put an input into Neuralink and he could write those signals to your brain and so that you, you get the feeling that your say front right leg is in the position that it should be, but you didn't actually have those thoughts that was Neuralink doing it for you.

So again, I may be wording this incorrectly, but the big emphasis that Elon had was the ability to, to not only read our electrical signals in the brain but to write them. And so that's where the really exciting point comes, for the future. Is for, for people with cognitive elements, such as one of the big ones they talked about in the recent release was, was blindness.

So again, from what they said there's a pretty clear disconnect from those who experience some sort of vision blur, with electrical signals. But we just don't have the ability to mend those properly yet, but that's something that Neuralink may be able to target is to like, I'm thinking of it, like in a very, like five-year-old way of thinking of it is like the wire between your eyes and your visual cortex has been like smaller or something like that Neuralink comes in and basically mends that wire, maybe I’m completely wrong, but that's, that's kind of what I'm picking up in terms of, the, explain it like I'm five terminology, but, again, don't quote me on that.

Danny Miranda: [00:52:12] Dude. Well, it's scary. And it's crazy. And what it probably feels like is what people felt like when the internet was getting introduced in like the 1970s, 1980s, where you have some people being like, no, you don't get it. The potential is real.

And other people being like "there's no way he could actually make that happen or that's not possible."

Daniel Bourke: [00:52:36] Don't bet against Elon.

Danny Miranda: [00:52:39] Exactly. That's rule number one. Right.

Daniel Bourke: [00:52:44] Have you seen that guy? This is a tangent, but, it's like, it's a, there's another electric car company. That's like a competitor and it's called, what's it called?

Nikola. So like Nikola Tesla, they like called themselves Nikola, and, like there's this guy who's dude, I really hope that like, he pulls off what he's saying, but basically like there's heaps of videos of like him announcing all these cool things, but they haven't built a single vehicle yet. And so it's saying things like, I think I'm the only guy on the planet who can out Elon Elon, we've got this new electric vehicle truck that's just going to decimate market and all this sort of stuff. But they haven't built a single car yet.

Danny Miranda: [00:53:25] That's real and it's not a parody? That sounds like a joke.

Daniel Bourke: [00:53:30] No dude. That's, that's like legit like he's saying like that, and I'm sort of watching this go on. Well, this is, I was thinking the exact same thing as you like, is this, is this a G up? but no, it's, it's, full-blown legit.

Like their companies’ listed on the stock market. And they haven't, but this is, I dunno, maybe it could be a complete hoax. A complete scan, but I actually hope that he delivers on what he says, because he's saying good things. So like, part of me is like, I can't wait for this dude to go to jail.

But the other part of me is like, because he's, he's committing fraud basically because he's saying all these things, the stock price has gone up to, I think it's like $30,000US dollars. It's ridiculous. And here's another caveat. Like a couple of months ago he cashed out $70 million of the stock and bought like this massive mansion.

So what kind of founder is doing that before you even delivered a product?

Anyway, tangent, but, yeah, the other half of me is like, well, I hope cause all this stuff that you're promising sounds dope. So I hope that you deliver on that.

Danny Miranda: [00:54:34] Yeah, man, that's crazy.

I've never heard of that before or that dude, so definitely going to have to research that.

Daniel Bourke: [00:54:38] Nikola, just the car company and watch like there's a video on YouTube. And I think it's like a compilation of just like all the things that he said. And it's just, it's just like, Whoa, this guy sounds like he's, he's getting people to join the calls.

Danny Miranda: [00:54:51] Well, I think that Tesla sometimes seems that way to people as well, where Elon's creating like his own cult or whatever.

Daniel Bourke: [00:54:59] Yeah. Yeah, you're right. You're right. They could, I mean, I read a really great article the other day about, how, so a lot of innovation, the credit goes to the person who thought, who thought of like the idea or created it, but, a lot, but not as much goes to like the person who, who sold the idea, like the huckster, like the salesman who got people excited.

And so, so there was an argument in there that, Christianity wouldn't be anything without Saint Paul, because Saint Paul was the one who was like spreading the word. And then, then, or like Apple would have been nothing like, so Steve Jobs was like, the showman that Wozniak was the tech guy.

But Elon is in his kind of space where he's both at the same time. Like he's a, he's, he's a hardcore engineer as well as the front guy, like the huckster. Yeah, the huckster, the one who's like getting people excited, because I think about that too is like, it's like, yeah, you need, you need almost, if you're doing something that sounds outlandish, you do need someone to, to be that like that person who's selling it because it's otherwise people aren't going to get excited about it.

You need, if you're, if you're building something like, like Tesla, which is changing the entire paradigm of how vehicles or just energy it's well, the end game is not vehicles it's energy, which is, which is bigger than vehicles.

If you're changing the entire paradigm of how society gets energy, you need to have a lot of momentum behind you. So that's where the huckster comes in. Same thing with Neuralink. Like if you're changing how people think at a like chemical level, I mean, a lot of things do that, but like, this is like an actual piece of hardware, external from the body inserted into your body. Like that's going to need a lot of, a lot of huckstering.

UPTOHERE

Danny Miranda: [00:56:52] Yeah. Yeah. And you know, what's so interesting is like, I'll I look at your content, honestly. Like I went on your YouTube page when I first found you and I immediately see this high energy dude, but then I also see you're like deep into machine learning.

So when I think of you, I actually think of someone who has both of those elements of, of the salesmen and also the coder part of him, you know what I mean?

Danny Miranda: [00:57:18] Yeah, well, I've kind of self-reflected that in myself too. My default is probably heavily extrovert. So I find like talking on video or being in front of a crowd, I find I'm very comfortable in those kinds of situations, but I find the balance where I need to recharge by, by being a nerd, basically by being deep in code or writing for four to six hours straight at a time.

That's kind of where I found my balance. I think when I was learning, it was like, well, I do the study and then it's like, well, Jesus, I need to, I need to talk to someone before I go crazy. So, because a lot of my friends didn't know what machine learning was and still kind of don't.

So I'm like, well, I can't talk to them, so I need to need to put something out there. And so that's kind of, I think when I found the balance of the extrovert/introvert time was when you're online or YouTube or whatever, you kind of dial it up a bit, you put on a show and whatever you get people excited.

And then, and then when it comes to, writing or, or being a nerd, you're just sitting in front of a keyboard for, for a while being very quiet.

Danny Miranda: [00:58:30] Yeah. I think it's an unfair advantage in a lot of senses because it was, it's actually something that I was. So I was living in San Diego and, and this neighbour, one of my neighbours came up to me one day and she's like, you know, I see you, I see you interacting with like our neighbours.

And I see you reading books. Like, you're, it's really interesting how you're doing both of these things that, you know, like you're, you're extrovert and you're introvert. So what I'm trying to say is that I relate so hard to that end. And I think that it's not even something that I tried to cultivate, but it's just something that I'm so blessed to have, you know?

Daniel Bourke: [00:59:08] Yeah. Well, you can't even explain it. It's just your nature. And I mean, I, I would get heaps of comments on my videos and whatnot saying, like your energy is contagious and I can't believe your energy. And it's like, Oh my gosh, you have so much energy.

And like, I was just doing what I would usually do. Like you’re in front of the camera and I’m turning it up. Like I see ego as a tool. Like you're putting on a performance. And I was just like, wow, I didn't really notice that in myself, but it got to a point where it was becoming such a, such a thing that I noticed these comments I'd be like, “Oh wow, okay. Maybe, my energy levels are different from the people who are watching.”

Cause I was kind of thinking of it like, well, I'm posting as if I want an audience who are kind of people who think like me, like, or act like me.

So I'm like, I'm thinking that I'm posting videos. That people like me are going to watch and they do. There are people like me in some sense that watch it. But of course, the sort of the narrow mindedness in me was what forgot. Okay. They do have some interest in you, but not everything is the exact same.

And so that's when I realized like, “Oh, okay, maybe this, this energy thing is, is for lack of a better word, a talent of mine.”

And so that's another thing, another point like me and me and my friend were having a conversation the other day. Usually often you don't notice, like when you're in the situation, you don't notice, things that people from outside the situation notice.

So the classic scenario is when. When your mate is dating, in a terrible relationship. And you're like, dude you're, you're, you're wrecking it. Your life's just a tragedy right now, because you're always upset. You're always fighting and he's like, “Nah, man, she's a good girl.”

“She's great. We'll figure things out.”

And then, and then like six months later when they eventually break up, he goes, well, yeah, she, she wasn't really a good girl. And then you're like, well, I told you.

It's because you were outside the situation and they were in the situation inside the circle.

So they couldn't see what was going on. It was only the third eye perspective that could go, well, you know what, here's what I see. You're immune to everything because you've got your life and your filters on the world. I'm looking at it as an outsider.

Danny Miranda: [01:01:44] Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, what's so crazy is that today I have a tweet scheduled that says like, State the obvious your friend needs to hear it and just like exactly what you're talking about.

And it's true. Like even someone who is self-aware and I consider myself self-aware and you seem like a pretty self-aware dude, even someone who's self-aware isn't going to notice everything that you notice as an outside observer. So it's really so true. And, and sometimes just telling your friend in like a kind way.

This is what I think about your life or whatever, like can go a long way in helping them with whatever they're doing.

Daniel Bourke: [01:02:24] Yeah. Like me and my best mate. We, we would often, like when we were younger, I think we would, we would clash a lot and like have, have like just fights basically because we would do that to each other.

And we thought it was a personal attack as in like, “Hey bro, I'm noticing this.” And one of us or me or him would react as if like, “Oh, well you're, you're saying that because you think you're better than me or something like that.”

When in reality it was coming from a place of kind-heartedness.

And I think, I would say even, even now, actually I would say I'm still practising, getting better at it.

Like when someone goes, “Hey, Daniel, I think you could, you could, whatever,” whether it's a piece of work or whether it's options, “I think you could improve here.”

It's still, I'm still figuring it out. Like there's still something in me. My knee jerk reaction is to go, well, fuck you. But they’re having a go at me. But then once I process it for a bit, it's like, “Oh no, this person is not attacking me, they're trying to help me be better.”

So I'm probably, I'm probably still working through that. Like I still have a knee jerk reaction when someone offers, offers like improvement feedback or whatever. It's like, “Oh, well, fuck. I could have figured that out myself and just done it myself.”

I was like, who are you to tell me what to do? But no, no. It's it's Hmm. I would say, yeah, part of it's self-awareness. And then part of it is, yeah. I don't know, just not taking yourself so seriously is, that's, that's probably one of my big missions at the moment. That's a lifelong mission.

Danny Miranda: [01:04:09] Yeah. I mean, my question then becomes like, how do you get better at not taking yourself seriously? Especially when you're someone like we both are someone who wants to achieve things and someone disciplined. Right. It's like, We can get the tendency to get narrow-minded and focused on, on our thing and be like the world revolves around this.

So how are you practising ways of, of not taking yourself? So, seriously.

Daniel Bourke: [01:04:39] I think it's, Hmm. I like to write thought experiments. Or creating space from, from whatever it was that I was doing. So a simple, real one is like, whenever I'm like stuck deep behind the screen, or like getting deep into a problem.

And I finished a large block of work. Like I'll just go for a walk in nature for an unknown amount of time and just notice. I'll be like walking around and be like, watch the, so I live close to the water. I watched the waves, watch the trees and just realize it's just like, what I was, whatever I was just working on.

Like, none of this stuff gives a crap, it's still here. It just keeps going. So all those perils and whatever that I thought like, “Oh, I can work out this coding problem. Or, my students are having problems, understanding the teachings that I've been given.”

It's just like, well, yes, you can handle those. But then as soon as you, you disconnect from the space, it's like, well, I don't want to say cease to exist, but they sort of, they leave your mind for a bit.

And then another one is like, when I'm, when I'm writing is to kind of, I'll be the one who's giving myself feedback and going, “Oh, Daniel, you said you were going to do this, why haven’t you done it?”.

I can't wait till like eventually when I do pass and like my, all my private journals get published as like people are going to read them and be like, “whoa, that's crazy.”

Maybe that's when all my best sellers would come out is when my private journals go live.

It's kind of like, having a conversation with myself. Like, you said you were going to do this, you did this. And then, and then I'll keep going, down and down.

And until eventually it gets to a point where it's like, well, I'll realize that once it's, once those stores are in the physical world or in letter form, in words, then I’ll realize it's like, well, hold on either, I'll just start smiling and be like, “Wow, look at all of this. Look at all this concern and for what?”

And then I'll just remember, it's just like, it's just time to have fun and I'll start dancing around or whatever. And, and you can just, just laugh.

I'm trying to, I'm having a hard time putting it into words. Cause I think a lot of these practices that people offer in terms of do this, do that. Like I'm, I'm a big fan of directives, like from someone you trust, but at the same time, I'm a big fan of like figuring out what, what practices work best for you.

So I like to say what I do and whatnot. Of course, I understand the value of hearing what someone does, but one of my favorite posts that I did over that 528 days was, Copy Others Until You Create Your Own Style.

And so that's, kind of what I feel like I've done. And I'm saying this as if like my style is perfect or whatnot, but I think it's perfect for me at the moment.

Basically just trying to remind myself to have fun with whatever it is I'm doing.

And it's a very simple, simple principle. It's cliche as hell, but I mean, it works. The cliches work. That's why they're cliche hates.

And so yeah, the writing to myself thing is just like, like having a group discussion with myself and just going, here's what I'm thinking. Here's what, what, what I've got to do is what are his, here's the counter-argument to that...

And then I realized, okay, well, all these, these problems that I thought I was having, in reality, aren't that great.

And then the last one I got this, I was reading, reading through your blog posts the other day. And, the, I read through your, your meditation, like summaries challenge, how you did 60 minutes every day for 60 days.

And the one that stood out to me the most was just the one where you, you kind of lost all aspect of time. And that's when I realized I feel most aligned when I forget that I'm alive. And it kind of makes sense, but I'll unpack it.

It's, as in, when I forget that I'm alive, it's because I'm completely submersed in whatever it is that I'm doing.

And it's counterintuitive, but you kind of forget that you’re living because you're in the flow state or whatever, you’re completely in the moment and it feels like you've just slipped into the energy wave of the entire universe.

And now you're just a part of it. But when you're outside of that, or then that's when the sort of the parallels of life start to penetrate your brains.

Danny Miranda: [01:09:37] I love what you said about nature and how like nature humbles you. Because I think it's so true. And also thank you for, for reading my work and I really appreciate it.

And it's, it's crazy because like you, I just expect everything to get zero views and I have no expectation for anyone to read anything I write. And then, you know, when, when someone you respect and look up to is like, yeah, I read your work. It means a lot to me. So thank you for that. And yeah, what you're talking about is like, what's happened in this conversation for me, right?

It's like, You forget that this is a conversation. You forget what we're doing here, and we get lost in the moment and that's such a beautiful thing. And you can't really even take yourself seriously when you're just getting lost in that moment. So it's beautiful,

Daniel Bourke: [01:10:28] But yeah, that's beautiful. It's the laughing skull. We all end up being a laughing skull.

Danny Miranda: [01:10:35] Exactly. So I think that's a perfect place to wrap this baby up. Give everyone who's listening, tell them where they could find you. And dude, it's been such a pleasure!

Daniel Bourke: [01:10:49] Yeah, man, this has been, this has been great fun. Best place to find me is at my website wwww.mrdbourke.com, Or, if you Google my name, I've got enough content and crap out there that the search engines seem to like me.

But otherwise, yeah, I also as I’ve said in this episode, I’m pretty poor with emails but I do eventually get back to them all. So daniel at mrdbourke dot com is my email address. You can reach out to me, say hello to me. I live in Brisbane, Australia. So if you want to hear about what it's like down under, let me know.

And, yeah, I'd love to hear from you!

Danny Miranda: [01:11:27] Dude, it's been such a pleasure! Thank you so much for taking the time and giving your wisdom, brother. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Daniel Bourke: [01:11:35] Thank you Danny. Really appreciate it, brother. Let's do this again.

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